Christi (daisycm83) wrote in shipwithpants,

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"I'll have two screwdrivers and a Baal-in-pants."


Why Christi and Little Red Don’t Get Enough Sleep

Little Red and I are insane. Our first conversation went on for *hours*, and eventually spiraled into a point-by-point mapping out of how the pants!verse works. Because obviously, we over think these things.

Though I still think it’s pretty great.

So we thought we’d share. To inspire more PANTS!

Pants really *do* have amazing powers…

We worked our way around to talking about pants at about 1:30 AM…

Christi (1:27:09 AM): ah, one of those heroes part 2 denial people, are you?
Little Red (1:27:12 AM): oh, yeah, I live firmly in that denial-land. I have no real problem creating Little-Red-canon and watching the TV-verse unfold like it's a rather interesting parallel universe.
Little Red: I mean, it's interesting to play in the Heroes universe, otherwise known as What's Actually On TV. But that's just playing
Christi: because we all know in the real SG-1 land, sam and jack...have pants
Little Red: YES!!!!!
Little Red: *dies*
Christi: dude, i was so totally thinking the other day that someone should create a pants website
Christi: so all the pants fic can be put in chronological order
Little Red: I have pants!fic all over the place that's not finished. I think that effort of mine should start at home.
Little Red: of course, most of it is not finished because it is ANNOYINGLY ANGSTY. Dammit, Sam.
Christi: bad bad sam
Christi: anyway, it could all be in chronological order so people could progress from hanging out eating pizza to sleeping at each other's houses to occasionally kissing to it's okay, we have pants, to hey! where'd the pants! go?
Little Red: heeee!
Little Red: one of my angstypants!verse fics is a "pants!verse in season 8" fic.
Christi: ooooh
Little Red: I mean, in pants!verse Janet is still alive and all, but it's chronologically season 8. A.j. and I had fun going through the episodes that would have happened.
Little Red: Lost City would have unhinged Sam.
Christi: oh yes. poor poor sam
Little Red: and she's all got her own team and all... but she misses him. And isn't as happy with her career as she should be. And is still having angst because now she's wondering what an actual relationship would be like...
Christi: (because OMG she's not *in* an actual relationship because they still have pants)
Little Red: well... I don't think it's totally just about the pants. I imagine they've messed up and had real sex. And it's not totally about sex so much as... wouldn't it be nice not to be sort of lying all the time?
Christi: yes. by season eight, it's about that
Christi: because season seven is the season of pants and then lack of them. and season eight is the season of getting to the actual relationship part
Christi: i'd assume
Little Red: that would totally make sense.
Little Red: and... in the pants!verse, things *are* different for Sam, because she is actually in a relationship. Maybe she really is having the "Huh. My career isn't doing it for me." thing.
Christi: that is very likely. you know, sam and kids are *much* more feasible in the pants!verse
Little Red: and she might even just want to move in with the guy for real, and not get shot at all the time, and be able to be home to get her back rubbed at a regular time. I don't know that she really wants that -- she's an adrenaline junkie -- but she might have that fantasy every now and again on long missions.
Little Red: but yes. Kids feasible in pants!verse. *gives stamp of approval.* Elly had that adorable fic about the kids' cartoons... *swoons*
Christi: that *was* cute. and i had to go and figure out what boobahs were. and then i was frightened
Little Red: I KNOW. I was terrified.
Christi: so freaky looking. i was like...wah! miss the carebears!
Little Red: yes. boohbas are TERRIFYING. But made for great fic.
Little Red: *sigh*
Christi: anyway. so in season eight, he's all come back. and sam was completely destroyed by lost city
Little Red: and the really evil idea that we had (so fun to have a whole AU to play around with where nothing -- besides pants -- is actually canon)... was for the new order ep
Little Red: because imagine what Fifth would have done to Sam's brain if she was all pants!versed.
Christi: oh no. poor sam.
Little Red: Tammy, A.j. and I bet that Sam would have believed the fantasy. The fantasy's all, like, Jack's cabin in the future, and he's all "the replicators messed with your head so your memory comes and goes", and she's all "eeek! but, yeah, this would be what would happen."
Little Red: and then Jack and the others would have had to pull her out of it, or something, because she wouldn't have been able to shake it off herself.
Little Red: and that would have sucked to wake up from that.
Little Red: and yet... I feel less bad doing that to her in pants!verse, because she has Jack to crawl in bed with her (with pants) and make her tea and talk nice things at her
Christi: yes. and by then, the pants!verse has had enough squee that it can handle the angst
Little Red: I can handle angst when people are cuddling.
Christi: much easier to take, i agree
Little Red: and really, in that universe, she could TELL HIM what she saw. And he would be like "yeah." Because they're already mostly there, and he gets it, and he would appreciate how appealing that would be and also how much it would have messed with her.
Christi: but. ok. if they're all already so close to being there...why take the job?
Little Red: I think he made her
Christi: the general job, i mean. he ponders it
Little Red: oh. I thought you meant her.
Christi: no. he woulda made her take sg-1
Little Red: Well, she probably made *him*
Christi: so they're both making each other do something that prevents squee?
Christi: damn them!
Little Red: SCG is like the family business.
Christi: this is true
Little Red: and yes, DAMN THEM!
Christi: but still. *pouts*
Little Red: let's assume at this point it's not entirely about teh evil regs. She's worried about who will take over if he doesn't take the job... but she's also a bit rattled from what's been going on and maybe doesn't want to be out there without him in some capacity.
Little Red: and he's not going to say no to that.
Little Red: but I'm sure they had a really Big Long Talk about it all after New Order.
Christi: well, i can see that. she’s actually very dependant on him, even in the show
Christi: with all the doubt-y ness
Little Red: for sure. She might be less so, even, in pants!verse, because she has his emotional support without the professional ties
Christi: right. but still, she wants him there. and this is how that can be. because while it is a fanfic cliche, it's just damn true that he was getting old and field duty was not the best idea for him anymore
Little Red: yep. everything else would have played out the same way, minus the tragic Janet death.
Christi: you know what i always wondered though? what about post-baal in pants!verse?
Little Red: Daniel and Janet actually are together in most of the pants!verse scenarios (since A.j. and elly and I were behind it, and we're all "sure! whatever!" about that). But actually together. And mocking the crap out of Sam and Jack on their own time.
Christi: i mean, it's still pretty early on...but that's a big heavy thing
Little Red: OOOOOOH! I totally thought a ridiculous lot about that.
Little Red: post-Baal, and then the Smoke & Mirrors thing (which is a bigger deal in my head than most 'ship fics seem to make it out to be -- he could have been in jail forever and all), and then Paradise Lost.
Little Red: I did a post-Paradise Lost veryshortficlet that touched on the others in pants!verse, but it would be reeeeally cool to write them out individually.
Christi: yes, i read the paradise lost one which was great
Christi: but i've always wondered about baal
Little Red: well... I hope she had a nice welcome-back dinner for him after the jail thing
Little Red: yeah. ba'al is tough because it is so early on.
Little Red: but... hmm.
Christi: and there's the withdrawal to deal with too
Little Red: she could just show up with x-files and pizza. and he could be nasty to her. and she could just... refuse to leave until the episode is over. and there's this awkwardness... but he's grateful that she's pushing back.
Christi: i hate how they had that as a throw away in the episode when daniel was all going crazy with it
Little Red: I always figured that was because the sarcophagus didn't cause addiction if it was actually healing something -- Daniel was just chilling out in it for long periods of time after he was healed (I thought).
Little Red: but that's one of those Little Red excuses where I see things and go "huh, how could I make THAT make sense so I don't have to think about it anymore? Yay."
Christi: right. it makes sense. but they didn't explain it, so at face value, it irked me
Christi: because they were all, 'oh there'll be some withdrawal' and daniel was all crazy in Need big deal withdrawal
Little Red: because Daniel's a sensitive type?
Christi: gah. i describe daniel as TOO
Christi: TOO sensitive, TOO pretty, TOO brilliant, TOO in touch with his emotions, TOO angsty, TOO willing to defend stranger's rights, TOO suddenly totes big ass gun after season seven, TOO...
Christi: just...TOO
Little Red: well, yeah.
Little Red: so then it makes perfect sense!!
Christi: TOO goes crazy at the drop of a hat. got it.
Little Red: well, we can play pants!verse a few different ways, then. We can look at it if he does have intense withdrawal, and then if he doesn't, really.
Christi: or he has slight headache that makes him even nastier on top of the i was just tortured-ness
Little Red: either way, Sam's going to be SO relieved to see him, and he probably won't be able to handle that right off. Poor kids.
Little Red: yep. I kind of like that way of looking at it.
Christi: yes. though you know, that could be when the cuddling starts more
Little Red: true. It depends on when the pants!verse all starts. It's kind of fun to stick it in season 5, too, but the Daniel arc gets kind of muddy in the pants!verse
Christi: that it does. though i think post desperate measures makes the most sense
Christi: them-wise
Christi: and isn't there a pants!fic about that?
Little Red: I'm not sure. Maybe. If there is, I think it's mine.
Little Red: Because I know that I sketched it out as kind of starting there (because I am obsessed with that episode... guiltykidnappingfetish and Russian! And Maybourne!), because Jack's all worried about her but expresses that by phoning her up with questions about the X-Files.
Christi: yes! that's it!
Christi: and it makes so much sense
Christi: and dude. Desperate Measures is great
Little Red: it does! Because she was gone for a whole weekend and no one even knew. Which is really really sad.
Christi: my roommate and i have this stargate drinking game. we played it to desperate measures once. which isn't really an active episode, except that "every time a russian dies" is worth two shots
Christi: and in the first five minutes, six or seven kick the bucket
Little Red: HAHAHAHAHAHA. omfg. that's amazing. *adds that to own drinking game*
Little Red: My roommate *died* during Chimera, because we have to drink for glowing eyes, brain-sucking, and characters getting some. And he watched the episode twice in a row.
Christi: oh dear lord
Christi: in mine, the ultimate episode is Urgo
Christi: i mean, there are like strings of three shots in that episode, one after the other
Little Red: hahahaha
Little Red: that's so great
Little Red: but yay! desperate measures! NINJAS!!
Christi: i'm trying to do the mental tally of how many shots urgo requires of a watcher...
Christi: NINJAS! so cool!
Little Red: and Sam'll be all rattled for a while after that, too. So she'll totally hang on the phone when Jack calls her. *squeees*
Christi: 15 shots. oh dear. hrm. no wonder i always think that episode is funny...
Little Red: *dies* that's hilarious.
Christi: *grins* it really is
Christi: anyway. so sam and jack have phone conversations about x-files
Little Red: yes. And at first he just calls her to check that she's there, basically, so will be all calling during commercial breaks. And then at some point down the road she'll be having a bad night, and he clues in that she doesn't want to hang up.
Little Red: so he keeps her on the phone and narrates what's going on on the show. all "Dark alley... flashlights... holy crap, that guy just got eaten by a sea monster. No, wait, a bear."
Little Red: and this *works* for Sam and Jack, because if he was actually "Are you okay?" she'd be all "What? I'm FINE!" and not stay on the phone because omfg, sign of weakness is death, or whatever. But yay! X-Files is love!
Little Red: and that continues for a while. And finally he's like "Just... pick up pizza and get over here," so he 'doesn't have to explain everything over the phone', of course.
Little Red: and pants!verse is born.
Christi: *nods sagely* yes. but how long does it take to get from phone conversations to pizza? as it seems that this is a question of vital importance when dealing with the whole eventual cuddling issue
Little Red: three weeks?
Little Red: what do you think?
Little Red: I mean, they have to go off-world at some point during this
Little Red: maybe it would take longer than that. But I don't think this pizza thing is meant to be a big deal. It's not something he planned out beforehand or anything. Like... her cable goes out, or something, and it's spontaneous.
Christi: so yeah, three weeks, give or take
Christi: because yeah, it's spontaneous for him. but it has to be going on long enough that sam would actually be semi-ok with picking up pizza and watching x-files
Little Red: so what does that mean for the cuddling? I expect that to take a lot longer.
Christi: much much longer
Little Red: because at first, they really are JUST FRIENDS. And that's like this huge revelation.
Christi: yes! friends! OMG they can be friends without world ending!
Little Red: first night, Sam goes over with pizza. Probably freaks out in the car a bit and talks herself up and down the whole way over there.
Christi: no angst! just friends!
Little Red: and then it's like HALLELUJAH! We hung out! And really like hanging out with each other because we are cool people and good friends! And NOTHING HAPPENED!!
Little Red: and they didn't even really WANT anything to happen! (first night)
Little Red: so, they freak out and are all "JOY! We can do this all the time and everything will be FINE!"
Christi: right! because they are not sex obsessed! they can hang out without being preoccupied with jumping each other's bones!
Little Red: yes! Sam congratulates herself for having totally demystified this crush of hers. Jack is always a lot more aware of what's actually going on, and stays a bit on guard (mostly because he doesn't want other people to think evil things of her).
Christi: yes. so they continue on in their little happy land of just friends
Christi: and i see that for long time. because denial is a powerful thing
Little Red: and their lives, on the whole, take this huge turn for the better
Christi: and physical contact, for them, is BIG DEAL
Little Red: they have somewhere to go after work. A reason to leave work by a certain time (a negotiable reason, but still, in Sam's head is "X-Files at 8")
Christi: but they're just friends, and they can you know, talk and stuff
Little Red: right. Because sometimes she'll arrive early and they have to wait a bit for the show to start. Hee.
Christi: and there's commercial breaks too
Little Red: or they'll "forget" to order food until the last commercial break, and then they have to wait for it...
Christi: so you introduce little bits of canon conversation where they ponder over episode events. heh.
Christi: and joke and exchange life stories eventually. because jack so wants to know sam as a teenager stories
Little Red: and if Meridian happens... which it does, because Jonas is totally involved in pants!verse and is TOTALLY CONFUSED by all the "not-dating"... shit would explode for a while.
Christi: yes. hrm. much shiteth with the faneth
Christi: but how?
Little Red: but... after that, they start up again. And they might get closer faster because they are otherwise so isolated from everything, with the lack of Daniel.
Christi: but how long is there no x-files and continued badness?
Little Red: it can't be too long, or they'd get used to that and it'd be really hard to break out of the rut.
Little Red: like, no more than a month.
Christi: oh, i don't see them lasting that long. because you know, they got all used to the company and stuff. and now daniel's gone, so there's no back up company (let's face it, teal'c by himself ain't much of a date)
Little Red: oh. I like your world better.
Christi: and because they secretly want comfort.
Christi: without having to acknowledge that its comfort
Little Red: well, Jack and Teal'c go bond all the time, I think, but I don't think Teal'c and Sam really hang out. At least, not in a planned sense.
Christi: cuz that was sam's mistake in the episode after daniel dies. she makes it too obvious
Little Red: yeah.
Little Red: so maybe she will be the one to call him.
Little Red: he could call her, to sort of... apologize in a sideways fashion by telling her that X-Files is on.
Little Red: but I like that she would call him -- since he started it by calling her the first time.
Christi: yes, i agree, she should call him
Christi: with the excuse that it's one of those x-files episodes that's all based on something previous, and she doesn't know what had happened before
Christi: because syndication is all crazy ordered
Little Red: or even... just... testing the waters. Calling him all "Hey." "Uh... hey?" "There's an X-Files marathon on on Tuesday. Did you know?"
Little Red: and then he'll ask her if she's coming over to watch it.
Little Red: and she can be like *whew* "I will bring pizza!"
Christi: see, i was right. by season seven, they really need to alter their diet
Little Red: yep.
Little Red: well, they can cook together
Christi: mmm. yum. even if they can't cook. it's yummy
Little Red: Fraiser, who knows exactly what's going on (though Daniel still can't quite figure it out), reads them the riot act about nutrition.
Little Red: and will suggest to them that they try cooking together. To which they will act all surprised and stammer.
Christi: well, poor daniel. i mean, when he left, they just had this weird preoccupation with x-files
Christi: and he comes back and they're probably nearing the but we have pants! stage
Christi: or already there
Little Red: HAHAHAHA
Christi: and he's....huh?
Little Red: oh, totally. Season 6 might need to last longer than a year
Little Red: and really, in pants!verse? Jonas stays around. He's on SG-14 with Ferretti and Hailey and other Forgotten People.
Little Red: and Jonas keeps the good hair.
Christi: oooh. yay! jonas! we love jonas!
Christi: and jonas, who has *finally* managed to get some kind of handle on the pants!verse, tutors daniel in the ways of pants!
Little Red: but Sam and Jack are totally not-dating by the end of season 6, and are all stealing kisses in the back of movie theatres and stuff. And in the very rosy lovey glow of things.
Little Red: yes!!!! omg yes!
Little Red: but it will totally be a bit wrong.
Little Red: and that's why Daniel remains confused.
Christi: yes, because with jonas everything comes out just a bit skewed. because you know, he's an alien. convenient, that
Little Red: yes!
Christi: but so. back to post-daniel's death
Christi: he dies. they're all distant because sam made it too obvious and they're both sad and they can't be just friends while all sad
Christi: so once they're a little less horribly sad, they have x-files
Little Red: aww, we rushed past the fun part, I think. Though now I'm trying to sort out when we had Dan/Jan get together. I think we established-relationshipped them in season 5 or something, and then just have them go through the oh-you're-not-dead angst rather than the who-us-date? phase.
Little Red: anyway. solved that.
Little Red: oh... never mind, *got confused* by post-daniel's-death I thought you jumped to post-daniel-being-dead and season 7.
Little Red: I'm back on the right train now.
Christi: oh. ok. no. season six. all the fun
Christi: as i started this to figure out baal in pants!
Little Red: RIGHT!
Little Red: okay. so... by Redemption, they're already very happysqueee. They've become hooked on each other's company.
Christi: right
Little Red: and Jonas is probably one of the first real conversations they have. Not the Real Deep Why Do We Not Forgive Him stuff, but just the "let him on team" conversation.
Little Red: so now they're friends with depth.
Little Red: and yet, still no boom.

(FYI: It is now about 2:30 AM)

Christi: and have gotten past OMG daniel's dead PAIN and gotten back to x-files and happy company. oooh. yes.
Christi: yes. no touchy
Christi: descent. god i love that episode
Christi: everything about it made me squee
Little Red: water! jonas!
Little Red: squeee!
Little Red: jacob!
Little Red: omfg!
Christi: davis, jonas, and jacob!
Little Red: davis all suddenly capable and whatnot!
Little Red: and lots of touching.
Little Red: oooooooh! we HAVE to have them touching in pants!verse before that, so the touching on the show makes sense.
Little Red: but just... casual. Not the kissy-touching.
Little Red: just have broached the physical space barrier to nudge each other when stuff is funny or when he wants to steal the remote from her or whatever.
Christi: not even cuddle-touching
Christi: yes
Christi: joking touching
Little Red: and just... we are friends and people who are not afraid to touch each other.
Christi: happy comfortable my feet are touching your feet as they're both on the sofa touching
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: and she can nudge her feet over to kick him when he's being crude at the TV
Christi: ogling scully
Little Red: ha! yes!
Little Red: and she totally fishes for compliments through Scully. And he totally gives them to her. Because Scully's all smart and whatever
Christi: right. and it's ok. because it's scully. and they're just friends
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: thus begins the "friends do this!" mental mantras
Christi: and then...frozen *insert dramatic music here*
Little Red: and they can, like... pull each other up from the couch sometimes. You know?
Little Red: we can play with time, you know. The missions don't have to occur weekly like we saw them.
Little Red: do we want them to have kissed at all before Frozen? Like... casual cuddling-kiss-top-of-head even?
Christi: yes. this i know. but they should come in relatively the same *order* we saw them
Little Red: oh, that I agree.
Christi: i never assume that the episodes actually happen on a weekly basis
Christi: there should be much time in between
Christi: if for no other reason than to explain why it is *always* the same season outside the SGC when the mountain is in colorado and it can't possibly be fall *all the time*
Little Red: and also... once they start the squeee, they might free-fall pretty fast. Sam'll try and give him a hand up from the couch one night when he's all "I'm old!" and then he pulls her down, and she just... doesn't move. And they end up accidentally snuggling.
Little Red: I know!! Lazy people got no winter establishing shots...
Little Red: in COLORADO.
Christi: *thunks head*
Christi: makes establishing a feasible timeline very difficult
Christi: oooh. christmas in Pants!verse! *squees*
Little Red: YES!!!!
Little Red: Christmas in pants!verse... will be so cute. Because Sam will really want to stay in town and hang out with Jack. And have christmas there. But... she's supposed to go out West. And has no real excuse not to. But...
Christi: and i dunno about freefalling into major cuddling. because you know, sam is still a little bit OMG lots of contact doesn't happen unless SOMEONE IS DYING
Little Red: and we, as the orchestrators of this pretty universe, reach into our bag of clichés and pull out a BIG SNOWSTORM to snow Sam in.
Little Red: er. right. season 6.
Christi: oooh, a BIG SNOWSTORM!!!
Little Red: well... "freefalling" only so far. You're right about Sam being skittish about physical contact. But she might really like it and her brain is still going "friends DO this!"
Christi: maybe a prolonged sort of half-hug half snuggle
Little Red: yes.
Little Red: that's what I'm going for.
Little Red: they freefall that far.
Little Red: and then Sam can find herself thinking about it all day and looking forward to that... and making herself sidestep all the "but! BUT!" warnings in her head.
Little Red: because she really, really does not want this to become angst and drama. And there's no obvious need for it to.
Little Red: and she can be all "i'm not coming over tonight!" as a show of personal strength... but that kind of sucks.
Christi: right. so they're all happy and slightly touchy. and then...FROZEN! (we need to figure out where christmas is. because it makes a difference, you know)
Little Red: let's make it as late in the season as possible, eh? nightwalkers is clearly still warm weather as they are outside a bunch.
Christi: (but christmas should be a little later. so there can be cuddling)
Christi: yes. *noddles* later. with cuddling
Little Red: the farther back you push Christmas, the bigger dilemma Sam will have about staying, and there will be cuddling.
Little Red: and when we dump a snowstorm on them, we can add to the cliche with him, like, picking her up from the airport in his Big Manly Truck.
Little Red: and then they can joke about how he just picked her up from the airport in the Big Manly Truck.
Christi: yes. because friends do that.
Little Red: yes!
Christi: but that's later. frozen is the problem. because frozen leads to abyss, which leads to the post baal pants!ness
Little Red: oh, right. Okay. But I'm making a mental note about staying-overnight-at-christmas-because-snowed-in, and whether or not we want that to be the first time she stays over.
Little Red: FROZEN.
Christi: oooh, that's good about christmas. but yes. we must focus
Little Red: er... can actually kind of play out exactly the way it was on TV.
Christi: all cute and squee and going to Antarctica...yeah
Christi: true. really just necessary as it leads to abyss
Little Red: and they can have these X-Files injokes. "Bad things happen in Antarctica." Jonas: "What?" Jack: "Teal'c hasn't made you watch The X-Files yet?"
Christi: nightwalkers, as a side note. so funny. bygones. and established freaky observant jonas! who will notice the pants!ness of it all before too long
Little Red: oh, yeah. Except Jonas will be so confused by it all, because he will be bright and Jonas-y and just ASK, and get a lot of stammered awkward lying responses.
Little Red: so yes, it's early enough on that Sam doesn't really become that much more unhinged than we see right away in Frozen. She's actually probably too intently focused on Jack to get all "omg, do I care TOO MUCH!?" in her head at this point.
Christi: right. because he's her FRIEND. of course she's worried
Little Red: of course, then she has a long, lonely few weeks to think about it. But I think she still doesn't get to the care too much. She just cares a lot.
Christi: but it's okay, because he took tokra and will be okay. until...poof
Christi: not okay anymore
Little Red: and it's probably even *less* angsty than in the real-verse, because there isn't this huge elephant in the middle of the room
Little Red: since they've renamed the elephant "friendship"
Christi: right. yes
Little Red: and yes, suddenly not okay anymore, and the universe is NOT WORKING RIGHT in bringing him back.
Christi: no. everything is ALL WRONG
Little Red: and she's been taping the X-Files for him.
Little Red: because while he was gone that was really all she could do.
Little Red: but now this is way beyond X-Files, and she's in super-Sam beat-universe-until-it-WORKS mode
Christi: right. so doesn't have time to get *too* angsty because must focus on getting him *back* and no matter what all the cliched fics say, sam is a girl who can put aside the personal when it counts
Christi: or channel it into the useful, anyway
Little Red: yes.
Little Red: she probably doesn't even realize how worried she is until he's back
Christi: right. and OMG he was TORTURED TO DEATH
Little Red: at which point he can't deal with her sudden rush of "ohmygod!"
Christi: x-files can't fix that!
Little Red: and they have nothing but x-files to call upon!
Christi: but maybe, maybe x-files *and* cuddling can
Christi: *nods sagely*
Little Red: oooooh. Sam taped a lot of X-Files while he was gone. tapes and tapes.
Little Red: and that's her excuse for butting into his seclusion (after pacing around her house for a day or two and fretting)
Christi: because it's ok because they don't TALK about it. but they cuddle, because when it comes down to it, jack likes the touching. and cuddling. and to sam, it was close enough to OMG SOME IS DYING to justify cuddling
Little Red: so there is lots of X-Files going on in the background (and whatever other random shows she taped when she set the VCR, by accident)
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: I'll bet he will push her away for a bit, though. Be nasty. Try and kick her out. Testing her on some level to see how determined she is to stay the course of how screwed up he is at this point.
Christi: oh yeah. it would be a whole couple day process before he would accept the cuddling and the x-files and be comforted
Little Red: and that's the first time she stays overnight on the couch
Little Red: and then the next time they make up the guest bed, because, hell, she might as well have somewhere nice to sleep if it's "too late" for her to drive home safely
Little Red: but aww! cuddling! omg cute.
Little Red: there would be clinging.
Christi: much clinging
Little Red: eeeeee
Little Red: and there might, *might* even be an "I'm glad you stayed / brought X-Files / taped the shows for me" whatever sign of acknowledgement, and Sam can be all warm and fuzzy and I Am A Good Friend! -y
Christi: and snuggling. he would snuggle her. nuzzle, almost. cuz it can be called cuddling and not all comfort. but he can be all snuggly and 'i just got tortured to death, you're nice and warm'
Christi: in his head
Christi: ladeeda. yes, by the end there would be 'those were good episodes, i am glad you taped them'
Christi: sam GOOD FRIEND!
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: yay!!!
Little Red: we have fixed the post-baal-ness!
Christi: yay!
Christi: quite the accomplishment
Christi: gah! i totally didn't realize the smoke and mirrors and PL were back to back!
Christi: no *wonder* sam all panicky in that fic you wrote
Little Red: yes!!
Little Red: and Smoke & Mirrors... he totally asked her to come up to the cabin with him. AS FRIENDS.
Little Red: and she said no because she was worried about appearances.
Little Red: so there is SO MUCH GUILT along with the freaked-out-ness.
Christi: hrm. christmas should be right before smoke and mirrors. or right after.
Little Red: and that's the second time he's almost unfairly taken away, and there has been all this cuddling and emotional connection after the first time, so now she is much, *much* more on edge
Christi: yes! plus now, she's addicted to the cuddling
Christi: because after baal, they've already done it and hey! no courts marshal!
Christi: so...cuddling continues. cuz it's nice. and friends cuddle.
Christi: and because really, the couch is too small for two people to stretch out on separately. but *together*, there's enough room
Little Red: awwww!
Little Red: yes!!
Little Red: and physical contact makes them both happy and less stressed.
Little Red: and the emotional-connection-after-baal is a big thing here, because that's also what she stands to lose.
Christi: and christmas comes sometime, really anytime, before smoke and mirrors. because that can be the first time she stays in the guest bedroom
Christi: because there's snow, and she may as well be comfortable
Christi: and it's just one night. so it's okay
Little Red: awww!
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: and this builds a foundation for her staying over (and it's okay) when it's NOT a post-life-and-death big deal
Little Red: just... because, hey, Daniel and Teal'c stay over sometimes, why shouldn't she?
Christi: right, as long as it's never more than one night in a row, or whatever other crazy rules
Christi: until PL, when the emotional OMG! starts to mean she stays over more often. or he does. basically, they are together more often than they are apart
Little Red: awwwww!
Little Red: poor Sam
Christi: well, and right after PL is metamorphisis
Little Red: she's just... gah. Going to need to rock back and forth for a while.
Christi: so it isn't just her
Little Red: oh, wow.
Little Red: right.
Christi: because OMG, she almost melted
Little Red: he will mother hen her for her whole recovery period
Christi: jack...totally willing to go with the staying together more often plan after that
Christi: not that he ever really needed convincing
Little Red: he's so along for this ride
Christi: in fact, this period might be the first kissing period
Little Red: he is less self-deluding than she is, but he also knows he isn't going to say no. He might check in with her periodically to make sure this is what *she* wants (and to make sure she does have *some* clue what's happening)... but he's seeing this one through.
Christi: too much to handle all at once
Little Red: oh, yeah. but that'll freak them out a lot. I kind of wonder whether it's better for that to come *not* out of intensity... just... out of comfort.
Christi: hrm. quite the question
Christi: i can see either way
Christi: though with this period of time...smoke and mirrors, PL, and then meta all in one big rush like that...big scary emotional stuff leads to much more time together and much more cuddling
Little Red: I guess... say it is out of intensity. There would be a lot more fear that it would get totally out of control, and might make them pull back. But... because it *is* so intense, they couldn't go far.
Little Red: maybe there's more time between Abyss and Smoke & Mirrors?
Christi: which leads to 'very relieved you not pile of water' kissing
Little Red: and they calm down from the ba'al thing... back to life as usual but with cuddling... kiss a bit "by accident", world does not explode, it's nice, a bit more... but still just occasionally and it's not really a thing
Little Red: then smoke & mirrors, etc. if they have already kissed casually, I am ALL FOR the intensity kissing.
Christi: right. it's like...oops, little friends kiss.
Christi: and *then* yesyes....that works better. pecks on lips, no big deal, little longer, still ok....big emotional things all in rush...BIG KISSING
Christi: not so rushy out of blue OMG freak out now! that way. because they did it before and it was okay. so it'll be okay now too
Little Red: and lots more clinging.
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: eeeeeee i love pants!verse
Little Red: BUT SEE! It's not just me! It IS really angsty!
Little Red: it's the show's fault!!
Christi: it IS it IS
Christi: you have to be very very selective to catch a non-angsty moment
Christi: but it's all okay, because it's angst...with cuddling. makes it all easier to bear
Little Red: and we tried to make it better for them by giving them cuddling and emotional support and x-files, and we stressed Sam out possibly more
Little Red: yes!!! more bearable
Little Red: and they have good days, too
Christi: ah, and then it works out! because see, after OMG big emotional things lead to BIG KISSING, they can pull back, be cuddly and kissing not such a big deal, and date-y for the rest of the season
Christi: go to see movie in rosey date haze, etc
Little Red: yes!!
Christi: because it's all okay now, and it's definitely now a non-relationship
Little Red: yes.
Little Red: while they are totally falling in love a lot
Christi: and they go out with their friends sometimes now too. but share a ride. because you know, saves gas
Little Red: yes!
Christi: and janet is all...STUPID! and Jonas is all HUH? and teal'c is all ...
Little Red: and Janet hassles Sam, but because that's fun. And Teal'c just accepts it. And Jonas just wants to play.
Christi: right!
Christi: and then daniel comes back. and they've gone from x-files freaks to non-dating haze. and he is confused
Christi: and he talks to jonas. which gets him more confused
Christi: luckily, janet straightens him out
Christi: teal'c, of course, refuses to comment
Little Red: "Were you guys... always like this and I'm just not remembering?" "Like what?"
Little Red: "Like... attached at the hip."
Little Red: "Are you *totally* sure the Doc gave you a clean bill of health?"
Christi: *squees*
Christi: oooh. and this just really makes season seven the season of the progression to pants!
Christi: while totally falling in love
Little Red: yes!!
Christi: or really, just ignoring the fact that they're already *in* love. while progressing with the pants!
Little Red: there should totally be accidental sex sometime in late season 7. Like... regular pants!verse fooling around that just went way too far.
Little Red: but still there are pants in theory.
Christi: *nods empatically* yes. because they need to sleep together *before* Lost City
Christi: at least once
Little Red: maybe twice. And then they were like "we REALLY can't do this anymore."
Little Red: and then there is Lost City. BAM!
Christi: oooh. grace and death knell. jack in pants!universe even more gah! than in canon
Little Red: oh, poor Jack!
Little Red: but he gets to take her HOME after Grace!
Little Red: because Janet's all "make sure she doesn't sleep more than X number of hours straight" and there isn't even the "why are you telling ME?" innocence anymore.
Christi: because jack is not the one in denial here
Little Red: right!
Christi: strange how here, he is the emotionally mature one. heh.
Little Red: and Janet feels better about the whole thing knowing that at least one of them is somewhat sane.
Little Red: ha! yes.
Little Red: but awww. After Grace she gets pampered.
Christi: ok. but did they have accidental sex before or after grace and death knell?
Little Red: after! er... I don't know.
Christi: yes. because there is the same INTENSE argument to be had
Christi: it's somehow less accidental afterwards. even if they label it accidental
Little Red: he won't push her while she's got head trauma.
Christi: right. that too. or gash on leg
Little Red: but give it a week.
Little Red: well, physical pain is different. He's the one wanting to make TOTALLY sure she knows what she's doing.
Christi: it's sort of delayed reaction pants!ness gone too far
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: and it's very nice. And they sleep in the same bed. Maybe it's *her* bed (er, "guest bed") because that's less red-flag-y than *his* bedroom.
Little Red: and the second time should just be in his bedroom for real.
Little Red: (hell, maybe the first time they just do it on the couch like teenagers.)
Christi: it *would* be very nice. veryvery nice. great sex, even. because they've been fooling around for so long
Little Red: yes.
Little Red: YES.
Christi: they should on the couch! because it's *mostly* accidental
Little Red: and they should both be all "... damn." Because it was really mindblowing good sex. And it was a mistake they can't repeat.
Christi: right. but it's ok. it was on the couch, it was an accident, we'll just make sure it doesn't happen again even though it was really mindblowing good sex
Christi: because it's not just about sex at all. so that's ok. not great. but ok. because they can still cuddle and you know, talk and stuff, because they do that by now
Little Red: and they can actually *talk*, sort of, about these things. Because weirdly enough this is a healthy non-relationship, to a certain extent
Christi: ...freaky same train of thought there
Little Red: right. They can have the "Do the rules change?" "The rules can't change." conversation.
Christi: right. they are determined to put those pants back on and keep them there, damnit!
Christi: because it's all ok with pants
Little Red: and succeed. For like a month.

(FYI: It’s now about 3:30 AM…)

Little Red: and then have sex again. And this time it should be in a bed so they can actually *sleep* together and wake up all fuzzy and "so THIS is what it would be like..."
Christi: and be really sad that the rules can't change
Christi: *sniffles* damn angst
Little Red: yes. but enjoy the bed-lounging while they have it, and not get all withdrawn
Christi: right
Little Red: because I think at this point they have both acknowledged the inevitable
Little Red: and have real confirmation that the other person feels the same way
Little Red: it's just a waiting game
Christi: so why do they stop sleeping together after the second time?
Little Red: er...
Christi: much tougher question
Little Red: because then there is really no pretending this isn't what it is?
Little Red: to themselves or anyone else?
Christi: *blinks* hrm. yes. there could be a timing factor involved, too
Little Red: oh, dude. Inauguration! the new administration! kinsey's in power!
Little Red: maybe they've suddenly realized the whole program could get purged, and they need to shore up their act a bit?
Christi: once kinsey's in power, i can see it as the one time *jack* freaks out. because more than anyone, kinsey's after jack specifically
Little Red: yep
Christi: and he could get to jack by going after sam and her career
Little Red: and Jack doesn't want her taken down with him
Little Red: or that
Christi: right. so i can see him being all pull away man for the first time in the whole thing
Christi: that makes sense then, post the second time
Christi: kinsey gets elected. no more. would be very dumb.
Little Red: and it sucks, and it's hard for both of them, but it's a different kind of angst.
Little Red: because they're still in it together. and have acknowledged that.
Little Red: and maybe he pulls away more than she wants to (because she's going to be like "I WILL RISK IT to stand beside you, ass.") but it's not like he doesn't want her.
Christi: right. because this would be the one time where he would pull away and *she* wouldn't because sam doesn't pull away when it comes to supporting jack or having him pull away for her benefit. now, she'd be willing to risk it. and he says, no. i want that. but no. cost too high. too risky.
Little Red: oh, dude. And then Lost City, right away.
Little Red: and makes it even more likely that she would want to accept this Fifth!vision
Little Red: because in that vision... she's horribly screwed up by whatever the replicators did to her... but they worked out.
Christi: because they do actually stick to the no more plan during LC. no desperate sex. nada.
Christi: and in vision, it's all happy again
Little Red: but when she comes back, Kinsey's been offed, Jack is doing the President a BIG FAVOR by taking command, and the risk is a lot less.
Christi: right. chances are if get caught now, smaller punishment. and really, at this point, sam is starting to think she wouldn't care so much even if they did
Christi: because he was all frozen and that was AWFUL
Little Red: I mean, it's still not the kind of pretty it was in her dream, but she can be like "I need this." and actually get it.
Little Red: oh, yeah. She was all "AAAAAA!!" for a long time there.
Christi: right. but is still angsty because...i don't know...there's still hiding it
Christi: and ok, maybe it's just me. but i do actually see them both as pro-marriage type people
Little Red: it's not really angst. It's like... a nagging irritation that builds into angst.
Little Red: no, I'm with you there. And also, good lord, EVERYTHING about their lives is secret in some way now.
Little Red: After 8 years of this, they will be killing for some honesty.
Christi: right. and eventually, there is a certain...want of the standing up and saying, hey we love each other and we want everyone else to know and wear the stupid rings and maybe if we want to have babies! and they *can't* if it's all secret and stuff
Christi: so they're happy because they've finally accepted that it's a relationship and they're all committed...but now, it's like, they want it all officialized
Christi: because everything's all secret and at this point the pants!verse has gone through a lot of angst and they just want happy
Little Red: yes.
Little Red: and neither of them are all that happy in their jobs anymore. I mean, yes, to some extent, but not as happy
Little Red: so the personal fulfillment is lacking there, and that frustration will bleed over into everything.
Christi: right. cuz he's not with her, so she's all gah! and he's pushing paper. without his team
Little Red: yes. and she doesn't get to be a science geek anymore as much, because she's all COMMAND! And while that's what she wanted... it's not what she does.
Christi: so the frustration will lead to need of personal fulfillment angst...
Christi: but the question is, how to solve it all?
Christi: i mean, the pants!people deserve a happy ending
Little Red: well, it might get them to a point where they are so generally frustrated that they're like "ARGH! Dammit! Have to DO something!"
Little Red: I want Sam to have a big hysterical screaming fit. Maybe more than one.
Little Red: I like the idea of, in a relationship, her going a bit emotionally wacky and slamming doors and flipping out at very little provocation until she reaches equilibrium again after a while.
Christi: because the air force and her dedication to her job has screwed her up to the point that damn, it took her three years just to freely admit she was in love with him. and now she can't get any of the good stuff that's supposed to come after that!
Little Red: yes! but the fit totally started about the stupid pizza place putting MUSHROOMS on her half and she TOTALLY DIDN'T WANT MUSHROOMS and she isn't getting ANYTHING that she wants in life, DAMMIT!
Little Red: and he's all "..."
Little Red: and after all of these freak outs will come the "do we really want to do anything about this yet?" and for a while the answer will be "no." But they really are in it together after New Order.
Christi: *nods* after new order comes the relationship, the freak outs, and the eventual solving of the problem
Little Red: they should totally talk about marriage while still in pants!mode in season 8. So it's been put on the table.
Christi: yes. because really, sam wants a picture of them where they're happy and everyone can see they're happy. and if she happens to be wearing a white dress, well that would be good
Little Red: they should definitely take the big leap and get together in pants!verse. It's stupid in real!verse, because they have no guarantees and no foundation for a relationship, but in pants!verse it's the only logical step
Little Red: awwww! yes. really, it won't be *that* different once things change. But she'll have that part of her life in the clear.
Little Red: I haven't quite figured out the employment side of it, though. I really do kind of want Sam to do the science-y thing. It'd be cute if they both worked on base earth-side together and got to, like, carpool to work.
Christi: right. and suddenly, it's ok if she maybe wants to sacrifice her career a little to have a baby. because she's been in this relationship a long time and been through a lot and has tried the career thing and it wasn't working out so much
Little Red: and the Stargate program is *really* important to both of them, but mostly to her. If Jack-being-leader is important to it maintaining its mission, she will want him to do that.
Christi: well, in pants! science sam makes sense.
Little Red: and then will want to do what she can to make that more bearable for him -- since he will totally be like "dude! get me out of here! I'll retire!"
Little Red: amazing how we come around to the same annoying clichés... but really like them.
Christi: in pants!, sam has to go through everything canon sam has to go through, but with the added relationshippy edge there. dealing with it always. three years of that, and your priorities shift
Little Red: pants!Sam *is* different. She wants a family out of actually wanting a family, and really liking emotional connection, not just because it sounds like a good idea at the time.
Christi: she wants a baby. hell, maybe even two. and to maybe not spend so much time running from death-causing things
Little Red: ha! yes.
Little Red: it really hurts her heart to put Jack through watching her come back broken.
Little Red: and I'm me, and want them to have a year between being in the clear and really being In A Relationship before she gets knocked up. If she even can. Jolinar-whatever is still in play in this universe. But... even that is less horribly awful if she has Jack to help her with it.
Christi: see, the jolinar thing? i know it's a huge fanon thing that she might not be able to have kids
Christi: but canon doesn't seem too concerned with it
Christi: therefore, i'm convinced it's not a problem
Little Red: they are both getting on in age, too. I may have to sacrifice my desire for them to be married for a year before there are spawn (since marriage is all hard, yo! They should get to adjust to that before baby makes Sam disappear into Mommy-land)
Christi: no, i agree. maybe not a full year of marriage, but at least a year after new order and the open acknowledgement of this is relationship i love you, you love me we will do what we have to do
Little Red: oh, for sure. but there will be a shift after the point where they can freely act as a couple around people. There will be a mental adjustment for them, too. THAT should be given time.
Christi: tis true as well. though i see them getting married fairly quickly once it's allowed
Christi: as that would have been one of the major points of it
Christi: and as most people know already anyway
Little Red: right. and then they can talk about a baby for a while
Christi: baby would take awhile
Little Red: since we have given them this amazing foundation of actually healthy relationship, they should use it and discuss their issues
Christi: baby is a more negotiable subject
Christi: for them
Little Red: right
Christi: but marriage is all...want to have rings and vows and nice security
Little Red: awww! yes!!
Little Red: they want to have a porch with rocking chairs. They so do.
Christi: *nods*
Little Red: and Sam will *already* have given up the death-defying job
Christi: right. because she thinks that just marriage alone would be worth giving up the death defying job
Little Red: it won't be as hard for them to scale back their involvement with the program to have spawn at this point. So they can actually decide whether or not they want to without the other elements being as pressing.
Christi: because it'll be what she has now, but all honest and open and with rocking chairs because they would be allowed to have 2
Little Red: awwww yes.
Little Red: and Sam should totally, like, try to apologize to her friends for lying to them. And they're all "... well, that's nice of you, but after the first year we just kind of thought it was FUNNY.'
Christi: hee! funny!
Christi: she can so be mildly offended by that
Little Red: she should
Christi: and once she's given up death defying job for marriage (yay jack, who's all wow, she gave up death defying job to be married to *me?*) then kids suddenly isn't all BIG SACRIFICE! it's....awe...want baby!
Little Red: awww! happy!!
Little Red: we have fixed Sam and Jack!
Little Red: and let them survive the show BETTER than they arrived!
Christi: well, you had most of it done. i just wanted to know baal. and after that, it seemed prudent to continue
Little Red: yes! and they are all happy-ending-y.
Little Red: and buying-a-house-together-y
Christi: and babies!
Little Red: yes!
Christi: and everyone's, they got a happy ending and babies. is so nice.
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: and no one is *really* surprised
Little Red: Jonas is all "I TOLD YOU they were dating!"
Christi: and hee! except jacob! because he wasn't around for the pants!
Little Red: ha!! so true.
Little Red: except even he knows
Christi: and i defy anyone who says that jacob is all aware
Christi: though maybe selmac is
Little Red: he knows at the season 7 point where Sam's brother tries to hook her up with Pete
Little Red: and she's all "er... well... no, no reason..." and Jacob has been seeing her with Jack and starts to suspect.
Christi: but i tend to think there's a certain denseness when it comes to fathers and daughters. though yes, if he heard about that, that would have tipped him off and he would have asked around
Little Red: and then he is whisked away to parts unknown
Christi: oooh. does hammond know?
Little Red: Hammond really doesn't want to know.
Little Red: but he totally knows. And respects that they are being VERY well-behaved and not flaunting anything under his command.
Little Red: and probably had a moment with Janet, being all "Is this okay?" and Janet's all "They'll be fine." Because Hammond and Janet are like that.
Christi: dude, they so are
Christi: yes! by end of season eight in pants! they are married and discussing babies!
Little Red: yes!!!
Little Red: and they both still work at the SGC, so the world can still stay not blown up
Little Red: *happy*
Christi: and you know, it occurs to me that really, it won't hurt anything that she does go to science gal
Little Red: explain
Christi: because teal'c needs to go help rebel jaffa
Christi: and daniel...needs to be translation man and ex-glowing jellyfish
Little Red: WHOLE NEW SG-1!!!
Christi: i mean, in the current season, they're barely off world anyway
Little Red: Daniel: "Can I go to Atlantis NOW?"
Little Red: Jack: "No."
Little Red: Daniel: "Pleeeeeease?"
Little Red: Weir: "No."
Little Red: Jack: "Heh."
Christi: they've been doing it so long that they're all specialized. so it's not like all that much would change dramatically
Little Red: we have solved it all!
Christi: whee!!!!!!!!!!
Little Red: YAY!!!!
Little Red: NOW we can go to bed, knowing that we have happily left them all... squeeeful.
Little Red: everyone is happy!
Christi: yes! and we will be too, once we get sleep!
Little Red: we will dream of... um...
Christi: gah. i need to write finals tomorrow. and i'm going to be sitting there curbing the impulse to write pants
Little Red: their first vacation to cabin together after OFFICIALLY being allowed to be together?
Christi: oooh. do they go before?
Little Red: ooooooh.
Little Red: dammit.
Little Red: yes!
Little Red: they do.
Little Red: and they bring Jonas
Little Red: as a chaperone
Christi: which confuses him more. heh
Little Red: and, um, Cassie.
Little Red: and then sends them into town for movies or something.
Little Red: Jonas: "You're letting me DRIVE your truck!?"
Little Red: Cassie: "Why can't *I* drive the truck?"
Little Red: Sam: "Can you guys just GO, please?"
Christi: *giggles insanely*
Little Red: so yes. she has been there... like 3 times?
Christi: and she loves it. because i really think she would, strangely.
Little Red: I agree
Christi: quiet and non-world saving stuff.
Little Red: she would do lots of reading, but away from a computer. And like it.
Little Red: and like *him* there, too
Christi: yes. actual books.
Little Red: all relaxed and in his element
Christi: and him all relaxed with fishing pole that does not catch fish
Little Red: and because she's stupid in love with him, this will amuse her for DAYS
Christi: of course
Little Red: oh! they TOTALLY go up to the cabin in pants!verse!!
Christi: it's good. all very very good and squeeful
Little Red: at least once by themselves.
Little Red: because they get to be *a couple* there
Christi: oooh! yes! in the seventh season!
Little Red: because no one cares. at all. they get to, like, walk down the street holding hands.
Little Red: when they go into town
Christi: *squee!*
Christi: happy happy thoughts
Little Red: maybe I'll dream about *that* trip.
Little Red: yay!
Little Red: happyhappyjoyjoy
Christi: ok. but bed. as it is *very very late* and i have three finals to write tomorrow
Little Red: sleep well!!
Little Red: and good luck!
Christi: hee! you too!
Christi: and thanks
Christi: night
Little Red: *waves bye*

(Conversation ended at 4:22:04 AM.)

***The Next Day***

Christi: dude, we so don't get enough sleep
Little Red: hahaha. really not.
Christi: as we get distracted by the very important question of pants.

It really is a very important question, yo.

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